Dear Jewish Response Staff,
The Talmud contains much obsolete scientific information. It says that the distance from the earth to the sky is 500 years' journey (Chagigah 13a). The Talmud gives one day's journey as 10 parsangs or about 25 miles. 500 years' journey is thus about 4.5 million miles. But today we know that the sun is 93 million miles away and the nearest star is more than a light year (6 trillion miles) away. Doesn't this prove that Chazal knew very little about astronomy?
Kevin
Dear Kevin,
Let us look at the rest of the passage you quoted:
When that wicked man [Nebuchadnezzar] said, "I will go up on the highest of clouds, I will be similar to the Most High" (Isaiah 14:14), G-d's voice replied to him, Wicked man, son of a wicked man, descendent of Nimrod the wicked who made the entire world rebel against Me during his reign! How long does a man live? Seventy years. The distance from the earth to the sky is 500 years' journey. The thickness of the sky is 500 years' journey, and the same is the separation between each of the seven levels of sky. On top of that, the feet of the angels called chayos are as big as everything else combined. Their ankles are as big as everything else combined. Their shins are as big as everything else combined. Their knees are as big as everything else combined. Their thighs are as big as everything else combined. Their bodies are as big as everything else combined. Their necks are as big as everything else combined. Their heads are as big as everything else combined. Their horns are as big as everything else combined. On top of that, the foot of the Throne of Glory is as big as everything else combined. The Throne itself is as big as everything else combined. Atop all this dwells the King, the Living and Everlasting G-d, high and uplifted. And you said, 'I will go up on the highest of clouds, I will be similar to the Most High?' You will only be brought down to Hell, to the nethermost pit.
If G-d's point was that Nebuchadnezzar would never be able to travel so far, why did he have to preface it by calling him a wicked man, son of a wicked man and so on? The answer is that the Talmud is not discussing physical distance here. The Talmud is discussing coming spiritually close to G-d. G-d is not a million miles away or even a trillion. He is everywhere, even right here, if we work on knowing Him and coming close to Him. "And you shall know this day and take it to your heart that the L-rd is G-d in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other" (Devarim 4:39).
The angels too, which are part of the "measurements" given by the Talmud, are not physical. The Rambam writes (Yesodei Hatorah 2:6), "When the Sages talk about one angel being below another, they do not mean above physically, as one man sits higher than another, but rather as people say about two sages that one is bigger than the other, or above the other, in wisdom."
Just as one does not measure an earthquake in inches, but rather on the Richter scale, so too one cannot measure the size of the angels or G-d in distance. All the distances mentioned by the Talmud refer to spiritual journey one must undertake to reach a knowledge of the angels and G-d.
Of course, we cannot really know G-d. G-d is infinite and unfathomable to humans and even to angels. The prophet Ezekiel (1:14) described the angels as follows: "And the angels ran to and fro, like the appearance of a flash." The Sefer Chareidim explains that humans are finite and physical in nature, and their imaginations work spatially. Whenever we learn of the existence of something, we automatically imagine its size. But G-d is infinite and cannot be quantified. The angels are able to comprehend a little of G-d, more than humans. But as soon as they reach that comprehension, they leap backward, fearing that their intellect, like that of humans, will want to impose a limit on G-d.
It takes 500 years to reach some knowledge of G-d. We know that Abraham first realized that G-d existed when he was in his third year of life. Add Abraham's 173 remaining years to Isaac's 180 and Jacob's 147, and you get 500. The Midrash Rabba (Bamidbar 18:21) compares this 500-year period to the 500 years separating heaven from earth, thus indicating that it is not the physical distance that is 500 years; it is the spiritual journey. The Patriarch brought the knowledge of G-d into the world and thus connected heaven and earth.
Furthermore, it took the world 500 years to reach the revelation at Mount Sinai, starting with the birth of Abraham. Abraham was 100 years old at Isaac's birth, and from Isaac's birth to the Revelation at Sinai was 400 years, a total of 500. This means that the process of spreading knowledge of G-d throughout the world, which Avraham began and culminated with the revelation at Mount Sinai, took 500 years.
We find the number 500 years again in the Midrash Rabba (Bereishis 15:6), where it says that the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden had a span of 500 years' journey. This means that the path to eternal life - knowledge of G-d - is five hundred years long. The same can be said of Chagigah 12a, where it says that the earth is 500 years' journey from one end to the other, and that Adam was as tall as the sky - the same 500 years as the length of the earth. All these numbers do not refer to physical measurements, but to levels of knowledge of G-d. Adam was created already on such a high level of closeness to G-d that He perceived what it took the world after him 500 years to reach.
At the giving of the Torah, the knowledge of G-d was spread from one end of the world to the other. As our Sages say, the giving of the Torah was a such a public event that everyone in the world heard the sounds. They came and asked their prophet, Bilam, what the noise had been. Perhaps G-d was bringing destruction upon the world? Bilam replied that G-d was giving His precious treasure, His Torah, to His people (Zevachim 116a).
This also explains the Gemara in Bava Metzia 85b, which says that Elijah the prophet used to wake up Abraham, Isaac and Jacob separately so that they could pray each day. Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi asked why Elijah could not wake them up all at the same time. Elijah replied that if they all prayed together, they would bring the redemption right away, and it was not yet time. The meaning of this is that, as we have said, the ages of the three Patriarchs together added up to 500, symbolizing that together they were capable of reaching a knowledge of G-d that the world is not ready for now. It will only be ready in the days of the messiah, when "the earth will be full of the knowledge of G-d as the waters cover the sea."
When a Jew begins his prayers, he addresses G-d as "the G-d of Abraham, the G-d of Isaac and the G-d of Jacob". He is saying, "I approach You not on my own, but based on the tradition I have received from my forefathers - based on the closeness achieved by them."
But Nebuchadnezzar wanted to reach G-d on his own. He did not want to convert to Judaism and share in the knowledge of G-d that had already been accumulated by the Jewish people over hundreds of years. He said, "I will go up on the highest of clouds." I will go up like the Jewish people, which is compared to the clouds, as it says, "Who are these who fly like the clouds" (Isaiah 60:8). He said, "I will be similar to the most high." I will achieve knowledge of G-d and thus be like the Jewish people, who are called "the most high of all nations" (Deuteronomy 26:19).
G-d therefore told him: You are starting from scratch! You are a wicked man, the son of a wicked man. You have nothing to build on. So how much can one man accomplish in one lifetime? It takes 500 years even to begin to come close to Me.
Here is another Talmudic statement that discusses astronomical distance. The Talmud (Eiruvin 21a) says that the Torah (Rashi explains this means the orally transmitted laws of the Torah) is 3200 times larger than the universe. This is based on the prophecy of Zachariah, who was shown a scroll 20 cubits long and 10 cubits wide, folded in half. We understand that these cubits are not ordinary cubits, measured on a human forearm, but rather G-d's cubits. Unfolded, the scroll would be 20 by 20, and since it was written on both sides, it really has an area of 40 by 20, 800 square cubits. The universe, according to Isaiah 40:12, was created by G-d with His span (the maximum distance between the pinky and the thumb, which equals half a cubit). Therefore, 1 square span is a quarter of a square cubit, and there are 3200 square spans in 800 square cubits.
Obviously, we are not talking about physical distance here, because in what way can the Torah be given a physical measurement? That would depend on what size letters it was written in. In any case, the Torah is an area of study, not a physical object. Rather, the Talmud must be referring to spiritual size of heaven.
Another passage says that the Torah was created 974 generations before the world was created (Shabbos 88a). According to Bereishis Rabbah 8:2, the Torah was around for 2000 years before creation, during which time G-d played with it. Now, G-d is the Creator of time, and is not bounded by time; how then could it be that it took Him 2000 years to play with the Torah, or prepare it? Obviously these Midrashic statements were written for us humans, to show us that the Torah is greater, older and more important than the world, so that we should give our attention to the Torah.
Another passage tells us that G-d created the world with 10 utterances, when He could have created it with one utterance (Avos 5:1). Clearly, these utterances of the non-physical G-d cannot be physical and the difference betwen Him using one or ten of them is beyond our understanding. The whole purpose of using ten is for us, to warn us against destroying our with sins.